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a lot of smart people argue how quickly the fiscal cliff will damage the economy. we'll talk more in the show about what the timetable will be. here's what you need to know. the treasury department said on monday they need to begin taking action to keep us from breaking through the debt ceiling. they can buy us two months with the tricks they have up their sleeve. if we waste that time, we get to the debt ceiling and we haven't climbed back up the fiscal cliff and the republicans begin playing games with the debt ceiling, that would be fiscal suicide. we breakthrough the debt ceiling, we're talking depression. not a quick recession. it would be the single stupidest and most damaging act of sabotage in american history. and it cannot be allowed to happen. and here, hopefully to tell me why it will not happen is alice, who probably knows more about the budget and the budget deals than probably anybody else alive. she's appointed to president obama's national commission on fiscal responsibility and reform. and she's currently a senior fellow at the brookings instituti
a lot of smart people argue how quickly the fiscal cliff will damage the economy. we'll talk more in the show about what the timetable will be. here's what you need to know. the treasury department said on monday they need to begin taking action to keep us from breaking through the debt ceiling. they can buy us two months with the tricks they have up their sleeve. if we waste that time, we get to the debt ceiling and we haven't climbed back up the fiscal cliff and the republicans begin playing...
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Dec 28, 2012
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they were wrong. >> we are nowhere when it comes to the fiscal cliff talks. let me tell you what's going to happen today. speaker john boehner, the republican speaker, is going to try to pass what he calls his plan b, which would just simply address tax rates for those making a million dollars or more and that's it. >> john boehner walked away from the obama administration's third offer. a giant, giant compromise. so he didn't like it when they led. he didn't like the 2340eshing. he decided instead to chart his own course called plan b. plan b was supposed to show president obama that republicans had their own solution and instead of bothering with his offer they would just go ahead and pass their own plan without him. that was the idea, anyway. >> there is breaking news to report tonight out of washington. strange breaking news out of washington. within the last hour republican house speaker john boehner appears to have completely lost control of his own caucus. just about an hour ago john boehner was forced to pull his own plan off the floor because it turn
they were wrong. >> we are nowhere when it comes to the fiscal cliff talks. let me tell you what's going to happen today. speaker john boehner, the republican speaker, is going to try to pass what he calls his plan b, which would just simply address tax rates for those making a million dollars or more and that's it. >> john boehner walked away from the obama administration's third offer. a giant, giant compromise. so he didn't like it when they led. he didn't like the 2340eshing. he...
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if we go over the fiscal cliff $700 billion of spending will be taken out of our economy. we have to change the scale of that fiscal cliff to a slight gradual bunny slope. so that our economy won't be zero next year. that is in a recession which will occur if we take $700 billion out of it because of the tax increases and spending cuts. about 100 to $200 billion is all that we can afford to take out of it. then our gross domestic product will still grow at about 2.5% to 3%. that's the first step. then speaker boehner and the president come together. they are within $500 billion of step two. $3 trillion debt reduction. all he is there to do is come back and -- $2.5 trillion -- >> next ten years. >> that's where we need them to generate the political will that's right for america's economy. >> i want to ask you about political will. we look at he is mums and it seems there is a lot of republicans that are weary of the -- agreeing to any deal because of a threat of a primary. a lot of the folks in the house chop from conservative districts. barack obama is a bad word. they do
if we go over the fiscal cliff $700 billion of spending will be taken out of our economy. we have to change the scale of that fiscal cliff to a slight gradual bunny slope. so that our economy won't be zero next year. that is in a recession which will occur if we take $700 billion out of it because of the tax increases and spending cuts. about 100 to $200 billion is all that we can afford to take out of it. then our gross domestic product will still grow at about 2.5% to 3%. that's the first...
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Dec 29, 2012
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cliff could have on this country's economy. prior to the president's statement, the gloomy outlook for a deal was evident on wall street. the dow fail 158 points or 1.2% to settle at 12,938. fifth straight day of decline on the street. i would like to bring in david nakamura of "the washington post" and david jackson of "usa today." how conscious are our leaders in d.c. of the ripple effect this could have and how conscious are consumers of what might be about to hit them? >> well, the white house is very conscious of it it. they may have the political advantage of this deal, but the fiscal cliff could tip the country back into a recession. consumers are worried they'll start to pick up on the news and once it hits their paychecks they'll definitely feel it. >> do you think the consumers are paying as close attention as we'd like to think that they are. i think they are even though it's holiday time and going back to businesses and i was at the white house when president obama had a series of businesses with small business and
cliff could have on this country's economy. prior to the president's statement, the gloomy outlook for a deal was evident on wall street. the dow fail 158 points or 1.2% to settle at 12,938. fifth straight day of decline on the street. i would like to bring in david nakamura of "the washington post" and david jackson of "usa today." how conscious are our leaders in d.c. of the ripple effect this could have and how conscious are consumers of what might be about to hit them?...
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to some degree depending on your analysis of what the fiscal cliff means to get the policies they want. why is it -- i ask you this seriously. i don't know the answer. why does it seem like the president still doesn't get that? >> for whatever reason, it is hard important me to delve too deeply into psychology here but -- this president has always approached washington in a bit after different mindset. i think the lesson he took from the election might be different from what his supporters hoped to take from this election. there tends to be certain instant great pit indication component in terms of how the white house deals with these things. they are looking at the short term. i think that zeke's point, though, is correct. there are things the white house does get. i do think that it is important to bear in mind that there will be blames run around. i think republicans will end up looking as if they are holding things up but -- when the economy is going to get upended next week if things don't happen the way they should, even if there is no mini deal, no anything, that's bad for the c
to some degree depending on your analysis of what the fiscal cliff means to get the policies they want. why is it -- i ask you this seriously. i don't know the answer. why does it seem like the president still doesn't get that? >> for whatever reason, it is hard important me to delve too deeply into psychology here but -- this president has always approached washington in a bit after different mindset. i think the lesson he took from the election might be different from what his...
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Dec 31, 2012
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according to the congressional budget office, a fall over the fiscal cliff, which would happen at midnight tonight, would shrink the u.s. economy next year by a half a percent. unemployment would rise to 9.1%. the bush-era tax cuts would expire, hiking taxes in every bracket by an average of $3,400. americans making between $40,000 to $50,000 a year would see $1,700 in tax increases. millionaires would pay, on average, another $254,000, or about 11% of their income. 30 million more americans will have to pay the amt, the alternative minimum tax, originally designed to impact high-income earners. the payroll tax holiday which helped workers save about $1,000 a year will also end. tax credits from the 2009 stimulus bill will run out as well as several corporate tax breaks that need to be extended on a regular basis. overall, that is more than $550 billion in tax breaks set to expire. but that's only part of it. there's also a series of spending cuts that will also be triggered by the fiscal cliff. $1.2 trillion in sequestration will kick in beginning january 2nd. next year alone, $109 billio
according to the congressional budget office, a fall over the fiscal cliff, which would happen at midnight tonight, would shrink the u.s. economy next year by a half a percent. unemployment would rise to 9.1%. the bush-era tax cuts would expire, hiking taxes in every bracket by an average of $3,400. americans making between $40,000 to $50,000 a year would see $1,700 in tax increases. millionaires would pay, on average, another $254,000, or about 11% of their income. 30 million more americans...
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we have retail and economy news. everyone talking about fiscal cliff, taxes going up. a little detail not many people talking about, but will get their attention if you say your milk prices could double, triple? >> got milk, t.j.? talking about the dairy cliff. and the conchalgressional agricultural committee will come together. the price of milk will increase. right now, a gallon of milk about $3.50. set to go up to -- get this. $8 by january. if this new man isn't implemented. part of the talks that's going on with the president. they hope this will move forward. nobody wants the price of milk to be drink up. >> farm bill, it maybe goes over their heads. but i tell somebody that $8 for a gallon, they pay attention. >> this is a farm bill they really want to concentrate on. who wants to pay $8 a gallon for milk. >> this isn't the only thing that could shoot up. >> right. we're also talking about grocery prices too. about 12 different items will go up in 2013. some of the main ones, fwrogroc prices up 4%. the reason why, remember the drought that happened last summer,
we have retail and economy news. everyone talking about fiscal cliff, taxes going up. a little detail not many people talking about, but will get their attention if you say your milk prices could double, triple? >> got milk, t.j.? talking about the dairy cliff. and the conchalgressional agricultural committee will come together. the price of milk will increase. right now, a gallon of milk about $3.50. set to go up to -- get this. $8 by january. if this new man isn't implemented. part of...
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cliff that he had been having with congressional leaders this afternoon. he said it was the bare minimum that congressional leaders could come up with a deal and it was the wrong thing to do to allow taxes to come up. i want to bring in christin welker. christin, it sounded like the president was saying he's got at least an agreement that should be an up or down vote, no matter what the agreement looks like on the senate and then on to the house. is that what you heard, too? >> reporter: that is what i heard. he essentially said, look, i asked reid and mcconnell to get some sort of a compromise if they can't do this in a reasonable time, he's asking them to give an up or down vote on this bare minimum package that he outlined last friday that he talked about today, as well, extending the tax cuts as well as sort of staving off some of those deep cuts that are set to go into effect. but he also said he's modestly optimistic, which suggests this is certainly not a done deal. you also heard him talk about the fact that this is something the average american d
cliff that he had been having with congressional leaders this afternoon. he said it was the bare minimum that congressional leaders could come up with a deal and it was the wrong thing to do to allow taxes to come up. i want to bring in christin welker. christin, it sounded like the president was saying he's got at least an agreement that should be an up or down vote, no matter what the agreement looks like on the senate and then on to the house. is that what you heard, too? >> reporter:...
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you think the fiscal cliff thing is bad for the economy. you wait and see if they can't get the debt ceiling worked out. >> right. it's one thing to go over the fiscal cliff. that would be bad. we don't want to it happen. a recession may happen. it would be unfortunate. it's different than the u.s. defaulting on the debt. you know, we saw that back in august, 2011, we saw the downgrade of the credit rating. just by having the threat of not approving the debt ceiling increase and the possibility of default. it comes around again at the end of february, beginning of march. it's a time when there's a deal. if the deal does not include the debt ceiling, more damaging effects on the confidence. >> here we go again. neil irwin, it's good. economic editor. three ways they can mess this thing up next year. thank you so much. we'll talk to you again soon. we are 20 minutes to the top of the hour now. there have been major setbacks in the deal talks. we are just getting this news, a major setback in negotiations over a fiscal cliff deal. senator reid
you think the fiscal cliff thing is bad for the economy. you wait and see if they can't get the debt ceiling worked out. >> right. it's one thing to go over the fiscal cliff. that would be bad. we don't want to it happen. a recession may happen. it would be unfortunate. it's different than the u.s. defaulting on the debt. you know, we saw that back in august, 2011, we saw the downgrade of the credit rating. just by having the threat of not approving the debt ceiling increase and the...
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cliff is a way that we would put a ton of economic damage in the economy and a lot of uncertainty about whether washington can govern. but just as important or using that fiscal cliff and not going over it and using that moment to put that bigger debt deal that you were talking about into place and it seems that policymakers who all know we need to do it with both the spending, and just unwilling to make the hard choices and that will be another december and if we have some kind of bipartisan punt that makes the situation worse, not better and citizens across the country and they shouldn't expect this, and in the long run. >> and it has not been able to come under -- this is what he wrote of you, in part, quote, she, like pretty much all of the deficits go, actually empowers hyperpartisanship by always condemning both sides equally no matter who is, and in practice, these days that almost always means making excuses for hard liners and the gop. are you an excusemaker? >> listen, anybody who is a member of congress was elected and sent there. that means that they reflect the voters and t
cliff is a way that we would put a ton of economic damage in the economy and a lot of uncertainty about whether washington can govern. but just as important or using that fiscal cliff and not going over it and using that moment to put that bigger debt deal that you were talking about into place and it seems that policymakers who all know we need to do it with both the spending, and just unwilling to make the hard choices and that will be another december and if we have some kind of bipartisan...
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the other thing is assuming we have to do something with the fiscal cliff here, but even once that's done and presume lbl awhat we're looking at now is more of a smaller short-term fix, that doesn't mean he's going to take his eye off the economy. he learned the lesson of this early in his first term when he said, okay, we took care of that, we did the stimulus, let's move on to health care. it would be perilous to move away from the economy for this president. in terms of other issues, certainly immigration is low-hanging fruit and he can move very quickly on that. and he needs to move very quickly on guns because if he doesn't move very quickly, he's not going to get anything on that. >> agreed. jonathan, there was a lot to cheer for in twafl, support for marriage equality, health care reform, we moved closer to full recognition of the dream act, not to mention the election itself which was a big victory. but, you know, those victories are going to have to be preserved and we know there's going to be more on a lot of those issues coming in 2013. the states have to implement obama c
the other thing is assuming we have to do something with the fiscal cliff here, but even once that's done and presume lbl awhat we're looking at now is more of a smaller short-term fix, that doesn't mean he's going to take his eye off the economy. he learned the lesson of this early in his first term when he said, okay, we took care of that, we did the stimulus, let's move on to health care. it would be perilous to move away from the economy for this president. in terms of other issues,...
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is really at stake, people's taxes are at stake, and if we go over the fiscal cliff, individuals will see taxes go up by $2,000, there is a lot of pressure on congress and white house to take action. that pleasure is playing a huge role. >> kristen welker and kelly o'donnell, thank you, both. we continue our breaking coverage of fiscal cliff talks and what appears to he about a last-minute break through when we come back. please stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] why do more emergency workers everywhere trust duracell...?? duralock power preserve. locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. now...guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. he loves risk. but whether he's climbing everest, scuba diving the great barrier reef with sharks, or jumping into the market, he goes with people he trusts, which is why he trades with a company that doesn't nickel and dime him with hidden fees. so he can worry about other things, like what the market is doing and being ready, no matter what happens, which isn't rocket science. it's just common sense, from td ameritrade. [ ship horn
is really at stake, people's taxes are at stake, and if we go over the fiscal cliff, individuals will see taxes go up by $2,000, there is a lot of pressure on congress and white house to take action. that pleasure is playing a huge role. >> kristen welker and kelly o'donnell, thank you, both. we continue our breaking coverage of fiscal cliff talks and what appears to he about a last-minute break through when we come back. please stay with us. ♪ [ male announcer ] why do more emergency...
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cliff. will a shift too the senate save the day? then paradise lost. will president obama leave hawaii behind the day after christmas if a deal is in the works and the election hangover. new comments from one of mitt romney's sons that you might describe as puzzling. what do they really mean? and the gun battle rages on. new reports on why nothing may get done even after the sandy hook tragedy. >>> a massive tax hike and spending cuts -- republicans and democrats continue to point fingers in opposite directions, hinting that talks could go into the new year. >> are we going over the cliff? >> i believe we are, and i think the president is eager to go over the cliff for political purposes. he senses a victory at the bottom of the cliff. >> we only have nine days left here. when are we going to get serious about actual solutions? i would welcome john to tell me. he says he wants a solution. give us one, john. >> meanwhile, president obama is spending christmas in hawaii where he and the first
cliff. will a shift too the senate save the day? then paradise lost. will president obama leave hawaii behind the day after christmas if a deal is in the works and the election hangover. new comments from one of mitt romney's sons that you might describe as puzzling. what do they really mean? and the gun battle rages on. new reports on why nothing may get done even after the sandy hook tragedy. >>> a massive tax hike and spending cuts -- republicans and democrats continue to point...
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but the other thing about the fiscal cliff is you don't want to be blamed for going over it. it is going to be bad for the economy. it's bad for the country. what speaker boehner's done is create a situation in which we're going to go over the fiscal cliff. but the people who want higher taxes, the democrats, they're not going to be blamed for it. after all, it was john boehner who walked away from negotiations to try plan "b" last week. then it was john boehner who planned to pass plan "b" that very same week. then it was mr. boehner who said it was up to the senate, someone else's problem. just from a pr perspective, what john boehner has done here is a debacle for the republicans. and the white house, they've just been sitting back the last week or so and letting it happen. but today, they gave us their plan going forward. you could call it deal and jam. >> i'm optimistic we may still be able to reach an agreement that could pass both houses in time. senators reid and mcconnell are working on such an agreement as we speak. but if an agreement isn't reached in time, between
but the other thing about the fiscal cliff is you don't want to be blamed for going over it. it is going to be bad for the economy. it's bad for the country. what speaker boehner's done is create a situation in which we're going to go over the fiscal cliff. but the people who want higher taxes, the democrats, they're not going to be blamed for it. after all, it was john boehner who walked away from negotiations to try plan "b" last week. then it was john boehner who planned to pass...
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if we can get that done, that takes a big bite out of the fiscal cliff. it avoids the worst outcomes. and we're then going to have some tough negotiations in terms of how we continue to reduce the deficit, grow the economy, create jobs. >> if this fight comes back. i want to ask you specifically about entitlements, medicare and social security. >> right. >> are you prepared in the first year of your second term to significantly reform those two programs, to go beyond the cuts you've suggested to benefits in medicare that your own debt commission suggested you have to do if you are really going to shore up medicare at least? are you prepared to do that in your first year of the second term? >> what i've said is i am prepared to do everything i can to make sure that medicare and social security are there, not just for this generation but for future generations. >> you've got to talk tough to seniors, don't you? and say something's got to give. >> i already did. david, as you know, one of the proposals we made was something called chain cpi, which sounds tec
if we can get that done, that takes a big bite out of the fiscal cliff. it avoids the worst outcomes. and we're then going to have some tough negotiations in terms of how we continue to reduce the deficit, grow the economy, create jobs. >> if this fight comes back. i want to ask you specifically about entitlements, medicare and social security. >> right. >> are you prepared in the first year of your second term to significantly reform those two programs, to go beyond the cuts...
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does anybody, say, what's the story on the fiscal cliff, or can you believe these bozos in washington? >> the bozos in washington is what i'm more often asked about. what really bothers me is when you look at the fact that people that are depending on unemployment insurance and people worried about payroll taxes going up. everyone acts like that's not a big thing. there will not be an immediate impact. there will be some immediate impact for some people, which is why you have consumer confidence down. there are investors and people deeming with the debt start to see i increase my interest because these guys can't run a government, you're looking at going toward a recession where we're playing politics in washington. this is very serious. this is not just beltway rhetoric here. i think that people need to understand to the point of calling their congressional representative in outrage today saying, we should not be at this point. they're playing politics with the actual livelihood of families. this is not something that it will be all right a week or two or three or four. we start to g
does anybody, say, what's the story on the fiscal cliff, or can you believe these bozos in washington? >> the bozos in washington is what i'm more often asked about. what really bothers me is when you look at the fact that people that are depending on unemployment insurance and people worried about payroll taxes going up. everyone acts like that's not a big thing. there will not be an immediate impact. there will be some immediate impact for some people, which is why you have consumer...
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congress. >> we are back with msnbc's special coverage of the fiscal cliff talks and that was democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia on the floor of the senate earlier speaking on the state of negotiations. joining me now, congressman tom cole, deputy majority whip in the house of representatives. good to see you, congressman. >> good to see you. >> does joe manchin have a point? >> no, of course not. quite frankly, we've gotten big deals done with the president before. the budget deal in april of 2011, the debt ceiling deal, the free trade agreements, the student loan, the transportation. but the negotiations have always been hard, tough, contention, for two reasons, two sides fundamentally disagree. second, quite honestly, democratic friends particularly the president never gotten serious about spending cuts. if they get all of the revenue they ask for won't come close to dealing with the fiscal issue. >> well, clearly democratic colleagues have a different view of that. let me play what chris van hollen said a short time ago. >> so far, speaker boehner has been held captive a
congress. >> we are back with msnbc's special coverage of the fiscal cliff talks and that was democratic senator joe manchin of west virginia on the floor of the senate earlier speaking on the state of negotiations. joining me now, congressman tom cole, deputy majority whip in the house of representatives. good to see you, congressman. >> good to see you. >> does joe manchin have a point? >> no, of course not. quite frankly, we've gotten big deals done with the president...
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>> the fiscal cliff would happen like in 2014. >> so bush tax cuts for the top 2%? >> keep those. the whole shabang. what we need is more money to go to the economy to keep things afloat. and this is not the time to figure out how we're going to reduce that. it doesn't -- it's not quite that important right now. >> picking up on that point, you're very closely following that stuff in washington, it looks like, my interpretation of this and tell me if i'm wrong, the payroll tax is basically gone already? >> i totally agree. it's not even being mentioned and the reason is, obama's last offer -- we actually had obama and boehner still negotiating in good faith, passing deals back and forth and this was included. he dropped his demand for having an extension of the payroll tax holiday in which the payroll tax was dropped from 6.2 to 2.4%. he dropped it. the stimulus offer shrank from 425 billion to 175 billion. so it's something he's already given up. you had tim geithner saying earlier in the year that, you know, this a payroll tax holiday is just that. it's a holiday. they're not su
>> the fiscal cliff would happen like in 2014. >> so bush tax cuts for the top 2%? >> keep those. the whole shabang. what we need is more money to go to the economy to keep things afloat. and this is not the time to figure out how we're going to reduce that. it doesn't -- it's not quite that important right now. >> picking up on that point, you're very closely following that stuff in washington, it looks like, my interpretation of this and tell me if i'm wrong, the...
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we're going hit the fiscal cliff. we'll hit the debt ceiling and businesses in our economy will not be able to recover because both sides are very polarized. >> we talked about spending cuts and we don't seem like we are now. this is a pretty small deal and that's not a consideration and we have to get past next tuesday. >> the biggest danger here is the debt ceiling is not included and that would be a great thing for the country to not have another deadline pending with more doomsday scenarios. the debt ceiling is almost guaranteed not to be in this deal and that's something that i thought would be initially and something president obama pushed for. now we have the same scenario in february again and this is very exhausting to americans to see this deadline pressure in washington. >> blake, do this quickly for me, here. we are kicking the can down the road. just how far down the road is it being kicked in this deal? >> what perry said is exactly right and another reason why progressives should be concerned which is w
we're going hit the fiscal cliff. we'll hit the debt ceiling and businesses in our economy will not be able to recover because both sides are very polarized. >> we talked about spending cuts and we don't seem like we are now. this is a pretty small deal and that's not a consideration and we have to get past next tuesday. >> the biggest danger here is the debt ceiling is not included and that would be a great thing for the country to not have another deadline pending with more...
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, it is a cliff. >> most americans have not benefitted from this economy at all. people are struggling and most people i know are kind of, can i make the mortgage? can i keep my job? this is real for people, and the problem is that one of the things that i have discovered talking to conservative e k economists or progressive left wing economists or whoever i'm talking to say that we are all not asking the right questions and not having an honest debate. the honest debate is that conservative people on the right want less government and destroy government to take what people get out of it. a way to end it. so we are not, and the left is not talking anymore about what the real issues are are, and we talked about in the break about social security, and they are going to gut social skuecurity. i'm okay. i'm old [ laughter ] but y'all are going to be in trouble when it comes to social security and your generations will be in trouble when it comes to social security, because they are going to take it back and gut it so people won't get their do. and we talked about, mel
, it is a cliff. >> most americans have not benefitted from this economy at all. people are struggling and most people i know are kind of, can i make the mortgage? can i keep my job? this is real for people, and the problem is that one of the things that i have discovered talking to conservative e k economists or progressive left wing economists or whoever i'm talking to say that we are all not asking the right questions and not having an honest debate. the honest debate is that...
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he also referenced the impending fiscal cliff, which threatens to derail the economy if a compromise can't be reached by next week on those big unanswered issues. with both sides locked in the standoff, house republicans are calling on senate democrats to act first. democrats aren't budging much on their demands. they want to extend tax cuts and incomes below $250,000, prolong unemployment benefits, and delay those sweeping spending cuts. sam stein. >> yes. >> what happens in -- and it appears it will happen -- we go off the fiscal cliff for a few days? >> not much, is my understanding. kwb, over time, it will have much more of an impact, and it's unknown exactly what the market's psyche will do with respect to the government's inability to come together. with respect to the tax hikes, it won't be as bad as the rhetoric is suggesting early on. whether it's enough to actually get people to get back to the negotiating table -- because i agree with you, i think we're going to go over that deadline, that's the big question. what kind of political ramifications it will have. it's not as i
he also referenced the impending fiscal cliff, which threatens to derail the economy if a compromise can't be reached by next week on those big unanswered issues. with both sides locked in the standoff, house republicans are calling on senate democrats to act first. democrats aren't budging much on their demands. they want to extend tax cuts and incomes below $250,000, prolong unemployment benefits, and delay those sweeping spending cuts. sam stein. >> yes. >> what happens in -- and...